Which piston rings
Post
by above140 » Wed Jul 18, 8:26 pm
If you are looking for more details, kindly visit Dongya.
Hey guys, I have a 93 ka24de that I am rebuilding. I need help choosing which rings to buy. Set-up is as follows:
HEAD-
Hot tanked
Inspected
Leveled
Valve job
Cams/cam journals polished
Shimmed
Block-
Hot tanked
Inspected
Bored .50mm over
Honed
Rods inspected/shot peened
New pistons(.50mm over)
Arp head studs
Crank turned/polished
New oil pump
New timming set
Full gasket set
Clevite 77 main and rod bearings
Anyways the pistons are from TOP-LINE, and I to make a long story short I don't have the rings. So my question to you guys is which aftermarket rings do you suggest?
The only brands that I can find are:
npr $80
beck arkney $58
Hi tech $62
AE Clevite Premium (chrome top ring) $72
AE Clevite Standard (cast iron top) $60
Sealed power $60
Top line ??
If their is another brand that you recommend please tell me, if not which one from this group is the best? I am leaning more toward the AE Clevite because their a respected brand, however would the chrome top ring set be good for FI? I plan on making around 300whp. Also about ring gap I was figuring .017-.018 top & .019-.020 bottom, is that a good gap for FI motor?
Thanks in advance
Andy
Post
by above140 » Thu Jul 19, 9:11 am
Anyone? lol
Post
by LA240 » Thu Jul 19, 11:30 am
what kind of pistons are you puting in the motor, go with the same brand as the pistons. Most manufacturers would recommend using their rings with their pistons.
Fully built KA-T - 20psi
Post
by above140 » Thu Jul 19, 4:57 pm
Anyways the pistons are from TOP-LINE
I
Most manufacturers would recommend using their rings with their pistons.
I figured that was the way for most aftermarket piston manufacures, but I also thought that since these were factory replacment .50mm over that as long as I ordered .50mm rings I should be good? I will give Top-Line a call, thanks for the reply!
Andy
Post
by ICEMAN.KCMO » Fri Jul 20, 9:38 am
total seal rings?
Post
by above140 » Fri Jul 20, 12:59 pm
I would never use gapless rings on anything esp not a boosted motor! Thats just the way I feel about it, you may use them and have great luck with them. Thanks for the reply! This board moves pretty slow lol.
Andy
Post
by nosajton » Fri Jul 20, 3:17 pm
above140 wrote:I would never use gapless rings on anything esp not a boosted motor! Thats just the way I feel about it, you may use them and have great luck with them. Thanks for the reply! This board moves pretty slow lol.
Andy
most pistons come with a set of rings.
i got the arias 8.8:1 89.5mm pistons and the moly rings included hold up pretty good so far.. seen 28psi w/o any problems
Some of you may remember my travails with my 4.2 engine
reassembly a few weeks ago. I took the advice of many
helpful responses and did a complete tear down,
examination, and measurement of everything with mostly
satisfactory results. Bores and journals looked great and
fell within specs and found that crank had been cleaned out.
The only problem I found was that about a 3/8 inch of the
contact surface of one of the middle rings had chipped off
next to the gap, so I’m now in search of a replacement.
These are new AE pistons .020 over with pre fit AE rings. I
haven’t called around to the usual suppliers yet, but most
web sites seem to suggest that I can only get full sets in
which case a new piston is probably cheaper if I can even
find that as a single. I’ve read many archives and from the
lack of mention, I assume all manufacturers are
dimensionally the same, correct? So, it comes down to how
important is it that I use an AE replacement and does
anyone have suggestions of where I might source this.
Thanks–
Gary Brinker - 1E 66 OTS Mid Restoration - Maumee, Ohio
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In reply to a message from gbrinker sent Fri 27 Nov :
Performance unlimited do a range of no gap rings which I
used in the past with a plus 20 thou AE piston, gapping is
something you must do, don’t take it for granted, and your
ring would have been chipped on fitting I would guess. I
would personally never replace just one ring regardless of
mileage, replace all head items in sets also, then you get
uniform wear…in theory of course…–
The original message included these comments:
Some of you may remember my travails with my 4.2 engine
reassembly a few weeks ago. I took the advice of many
helpful responses and did a complete tear down,
examination, and measurement of everything with mostly
satisfactory results. Bores and journals looked great and
fell within specs and found that crank had been cleaned out.
The only problem I found was that about a 3/8 inch of the
contact surface of one of the middle rings had chipped off
next to the gap, so I’m now in search of a replacement.
These are new AE pistons .020 over with pre fit AE rings. I
haven’t called around to the usual suppliers yet, but most
–
Keith.P. Series2 Roadster
exmouth, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from gbrinker sent Fri 27 Nov :
Ask John Carey. The late lamented Dick Vandermeyden had
some 5+1 piston sets and you might be able to get an odd
one.
Just because the bore and the deck to pin size is the same
(and the latter may vary a fraction) doesn’t nean the
skirt design or piston mass are compatible, let alone
exact crown spec/CR. Some pistons have a cast-in ferrois
expansion control ring for example.
The engine would run but you might be off on balance or
torsional resonances at cruise? I’m as cheap as they come
but even I would not fit odd pistons…–
The original message included these comments:
lack of mention, I assume all manufacturers are
dimensionally the same, correct? So, it comes down to how
important is it that I use an AE replacement and does
anyone have suggestions of where I might source this.
–
1E 66 D, 1R 70 FHC, 79 S2 XJ12L
Gaithersburg, Maryland, United States
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In reply to a message from gbrinker sent Fri 27 Nov :
I’ve read many archives and from the
lack of mention, I assume all manufacturers are
dimensionally the same, correct?
Gary,
That is a very bad assumption. Pistons and rings must be
individually fitted to the bores because they are not the
same. A broken ring is a serious failure and my advice
would be to determine the cause before you repeat the
error. I would be measuring bore clearances, ring gaps,
side gaps, looking for signs of detonation and more
assembly mistakes.
Paul–
The original message included these comments:
Some of you may remember my travails with my 4.2 engine
reassembly a few weeks ago. I took the advice of many
helpful responses and did a complete tear down,
examination, and measurement of everything with mostly
satisfactory results. Bores and journals looked great and
–
PS
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In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Sat 28 Nov :
Pete,
thanks for mentioning the Vandermeyden parts stash again -
yes we do indeed have pistons for sale.
6 ea 4.2 Hepolite - Pistons - .020’’ .508mm
6 ea 4.2 Hepolite - AE Pistons - 8.7:1 /STD
there is also a lot of 5ea. C and 1ea. C pistions–
The original message included these comments:
Ask John Carey. The late lamented Dick Vandermeyden had
some 5+1 piston sets and you might be able to get an odd
one.
–
john carey : () Bettie IV - my '63 S1 FHC
Los Gatos/California, United States
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In reply to a message from john carey sent Sat 28 Nov :
Bits and pieces.
-
Busted rings usualy result
from a slip of the compressor
on installation. However, inadequate end gap
is another cause. Or, just a material flaw.
-
Only with great reluctance would I
reuse rings that had been seated.
Leakage almost certain.
-
If you have the dimensions and the
characteristic of the piston, you
can shop for a replacement set.
Dimensions means all, not only the
bore size !
-
A light scuff of the bores seems
necessary, even if the hatch of the
original hone still show.
Old tale:
Ak Miller and crew built the
‘‘Caballo de Hierro’’ to race in
Mexico circa . Auto writer
Brock Yates went with the crewa
well traveled Olds V8 as a chase car.
It busted a piston. Caballo was
Olds powered. A local Olds dealer
provided facilities. Brock and crew
begged for an old piston from the
scrap heap. No, senores, no es possible!!!
Vendemos uno Nuevo…
Fixed, on with the race.
Carl–
Carl Hutchins Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
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Contact us to discuss your requirements of piston ring manufacturer. Our experienced sales team can help you identify the options that best suit your needs.
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In reply to a message from gbrinker sent Fri 27 Nov :
Did this motor run at a lll? sounds like tight ring gap on
install. Also to much clearance in grove if ring is too
thin will break rings like you can’t believe (running
engine)
I wouldn’t run a different piston from the other 5.
Has the bore been sized to fit those pistons? different
pistons have different piston/wall clearance spec.
I’d get the new rings.
If you can get the actual AE rings on those pistons even if
yu have to get a set. I would go with that.
Check and gap and vertical clearance of ring in piston gap.–
The original message included these comments:
The only problem I found was that about a 3/8 inch of the
contact surface of one of the middle rings had chipped off
web sites seem to suggest that I can only get full sets in
–
S1 XKE . I really got to put this back together…
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In reply to a message from Bill B 2 sent Sat 28 Nov :
Thanks all for your thoughts.
I should have provided more details. This engine has never
run and the chipped ring clearance etc. is good. I assume
it was an installation slip that caused the chip and they
just went ahead anyway, very easy to believe with the other
problems I found. I am not going to replace the piston,
just looking for a replacement ring. My question about
dimensions was not for pistons but for replacement rings as
vendors seem to just quote ring sets without even
mentioning brand. This makes me think that at least most
replacement rings are made to original dimensional specs.
I would certainly check end gap and side clearance of any
replacement ring.–
The original message included these comments:
Did this motor run at a lll? sounds like tight ring gap on
install. Also to much clearance in grove if ring is too
–
Gary Brinker - 1E 66 OTS Mid Restoration - Maumee, Ohio
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In reply to a message from gbrinker sent Fri 27 Nov :
Gary when you replace a piston ring it is essential that you
also check the back clearance of the ring. If you get a piston
with rings already installed like from AE you probably don’t
have to do this but if you change rings you need to check it.
Rings come in various widths. During the manufacturing process
pistons are cam ground. That means that when at room temp they
are a slight oval, the shorter dimension being across the
bosses for the pin. The idea is that when the piston heats up
and expands the greatest expansion is through these bosses as
that’s where all the aluminum is. The ring groove is however
machined as a circle when cold so when the piston heats up the
groove is now the oval. You may have enough clearance in the
front and back of the piston and not enough over the bosses.
That causes the piston to force the ring into the cyl wall -
ugly - stuff starts to melt. I know this from hard experience
sadly.
Terry Sturgeon–
68 E Type OTS, 67 E Type coupe, 07 XKR
Victoria, Canada
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In reply to a message from inlinesix sent Sat 28 Nov :
Just out of interest, and maybe can be confirmed by older
Australian posters, but I have heard many times, that Jaguar
engines were often rebuilt using rings from GM Holden 253ci
V8 motors, (they had a bore size 92.08mm), but were less
than half the cost at that time…I am not suggesting trying
this–
The original message included these comments:
Gary when you replace a piston ring it is essential that you
also check the back clearance of the ring. If you get a piston
–
Tony
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In reply to a message from PeterCrespin sent Sun 29 Nov :
Fettling is fun, I once spent a whole afternoon modifying a
Singer exhaust valve, pin retained, to take a pair of
collets to fit one cylinder of my Mk 5 Douglas, all done
with a bench grinder !!! The right hand exhaust had been
glowing cherry red, and as the clamp was loose, burned the
heel of my right boot a lot hoofing it back in on the
move…my dad told me of times when rings were handcut from
cast pipe, seems there was a standard sized pipe of the day
which worked well with the ten horse Y type Fords…but, if
you ever fit Cords, which I understand are still around from
a long time ago, be prepared to tow start your car, fitted
them to a MK2 3.4 many years ago, would not crank with the
friction generated until it had run for a while…–
The original message included these comments:
In reply to a message from awg sent Sun 29 Nov :
Coincidence. Just spent a couple of hours fettling/fitting
new rings to standard pistons for a re-lined E-type
engine. Even AE rings on AE Hepolite pistons in a ‘new’
standard block need adjusting. I wonder how long it would
take fettling rings off something else?
1E 66 D, 1R 70 FHC, 79 S2 XJ12L
Gaithersburg, Maryland, United States
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–
Keith.P. Series2 Roadster
exmouth, United Kingdom
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In reply to a message from sozfingers sent Mon 30 Nov :
Interesting:
Cords or Fords. The former very
sophisticated, the latter ones
in that time period, much simpler.
In early days, indeed, engines
were set up very tightly.
Too much for early starters
to spin enough to fire. Tow starts
common. then, left to run at a quite
fast idle with a hose to add cool water.
Tightening the rods on my T was regular
maintenance. A bit misguided. Much later,
I learned that they did much better
if left a bit looser!!! My starters and
batteries were rarely functional.
Hand cranked.
Too tight after a bearing ‘‘adjustment’’.
The street in front and back of our
house was nicely down slope. Just push
and run along side. then, jump in, and
jam it in gear. It would always fire
right up. Back home, add the hose and
let it run about fifteen minutes. Back
to normal til the next time…
Carl–
The original message included these comments:
you ever fit Cords, which I understand are still around from
a long time ago, be prepared to tow start your car, fitted
them to a MK2 3.4 many years ago, would not crank with the
friction generated until it had run for a while…
–
Carl Hutchins Jaguar XJ6 with LT1 and Jeep Grand
Walnut Creek, California, United States
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In reply to a message from gbrinker sent Fri 27 Nov :
As a follow up to my search for a replacement AE piston ring
I was unable to find a source for a single or one piston
ring set. I did however find a reasonably priced full set
of .030 over 4.2 AE Hepolite rings on Ebay. For anyone in a
similar situation that might search this thread in the
future, I now have 17 new rings which I will make available
free to anyone that might need a single or even a one piston
set.–
The original message included these comments:
important is it that I use an AE replacement and does
anyone have suggestions of where I might source this.
–
Gary Brinker - 1E 66 OTS Mid Restoration - Maumee, Ohio
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